[whateverfloats]

I don't understand why people love Ron Paul so much. I wouldn't want someone with his views in office. I'm not talking about his economics, it's his social views that scare me.

Oh, and no one claims that wealth should be 'punished'. All taxation can be seen as a tax on wealth but that's fine with me. The rich are simply more able to help the group in that way. Asking them to do so is not to punish them, but to help others.

[mister_clockwork]

The reason why this country is failing is because the ratio of service jobs to goods jobs is too strongly in favor of service jobs.

We have an overabundance of people who are in training or can do white collared jobs (which also leads to many people being jobless), and consequently we're losing more and more blue collared jobs, jobs that actually produce quality goods. We've become way too focused on office jobs, and it seems as if industrial jobs are trying to be swept under the carpet. People seem to look at technical schools as being remedial compared to colleges, which is absolutely untrue. The demand for skill in industrial jobs is on the rise; watchmakers, tailors, shoemakers, book binders, and blacksmiths are just a few artisan jobs that are becoming harder and harder to find employees for. Skilled workers in these fields are few and far between. Anyone today who is as good as an average worker in those fields about 100 years ago can basically write their own ticket. You wouldn't believe the kind of money a decent watchmaker can make, let alone a master.

[la_senorita_azul]

I don't think that watchmakers, shoemakers, etc, make much money. In my area, custom artisan shops and things of that nature are few and far between. Many people open them, but few people can afford a custom-made watch or a rack for their fireplace made by a blacksmith. They'll simply buy the cheaper, factory-made watch or wood rack. At least that's how it is by me. People want cheap, not locally-made, at least in this economy. Go a few town north of me, and you'll see boutiques of hand-made goods, locally-made folk art and hosewares, things of that nature. They go for a heft price, though. I'm not going to spend 120 dollars for a hand-embroidered skirt that I can get at Kohl's for 19.99.

[i_moan]

la_senorita_azul wrote: I know what distribution of wealth means and I support it 100%. The people who make millions a year, in my opinion, have not worked hard enough to earn it. Many of these people do nothing at all! *coughcoughparishiltoncough*. I think that when there are people starving, yet are doing heavy labor, people that do nearly nothing should not be paid millions. Some people do work hard for their money and contribute a lot to society. However, until everyone is compensated for their work, I don't think those hard-working individuals should be making millions (or billions) a year. I fully support increased taxes on people that make over 200,000 a year. In these times, nobody should have that much excess, especially since, in my opinion, they don't deserve it. A landscaping worker rarely makes more than ten dollars an hour. Medical researchers aren't pade great salaries either, especially if they're in emerging fields. Landscaping workers tend to do hard labor. Medical research involes a LOT of brain power. When the people that do the tough jobs and get paid low amounts, yet pro ball players and crappy reality show stars that really don't work as hard get paid millions per season, you know something's wrong.

But what about the people who DO work, like those who went to school to be a tax planner or a lawyer or an architect. Didnt those people work hard to get where they are? Why should they have to suffer because of ppl like paris hilton?

[germanyfgewinn]

The redistribution of wealth would never work. People have tried it, and it's always failed.

[mister_clockwork]

la_senorita_azul wrote: I don't think that watchmakers, shoemakers, etc, make much money. In my area, custom artisan shops and things of that nature are few and far between. Many people open them, but few people can afford a custom-made watch or a rack for their fireplace made by a blacksmith. They'll simply buy the cheaper, factory-made watch or wood rack. At least that's how it is by me. People want cheap, not locally-made, at least in this economy. Go a few town north of me, and you'll see boutiques of hand-made goods, locally-made folk art and hosewares, things of that nature. They go for a heft price, though. I'm not going to spend 120 dollars for a hand-embroidered skirt that I can get at Kohl's for 19.99.

(At least with watchmaking,) Everyone knows someone who has a watch or clock that needs to be fixed, and especially with the economy the way it is, they're much more likely to get an item repaired rather than buy a new one. There's also wealthy people who have private collections, and people who are doing well in this economy who are still buying nice things. A chiropractor I know recently bought an $8,000 Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso wrist watch, so there's definitely people with money.

The same can go for the other artisan jobs as well. Some things need restored or repaired, and some people can afford to just buy nice things. You just have to bear in mind that the economy is about as bad as it should get, so profits in these areas should rise with the economy, especially with people wanting more and more handmade/quality stuff. As least in the watchmaking world, people are starting to get tired of the electronic junk and are looking for quality mechanical watches. Mechanical watches only make up about 10-20% of the watches sold today, but gives over 50% of the net revenue. There's something to be said for that. And as far as the money that can be made, my teacher has made 4 watches per customer request, each selling for about $150,000 (and this was 10+ years ago; imagine how much they'd sell for now). It's an obscure profession right now, and the general public isn't informed on what goes on in the horological world.

[formaldehydekat]

Saying young people shouldn't care about what's going on in the world since the government hasn't deemed them old enough to vote is stupid

i didn't read much past that

[la_senorita_azul]

i_moan wrote: But what about the people who DO work, like those who went to school to be a tax planner or a lawyer or an architect. Didnt those people work hard to get where they are? Why should they have to suffer because of ppl like paris hilton?

I still don't think that they deserve to be making such excessive amounts of money. They definitley should be rewarded, though. A few hundred thousand a year is pretty nice salary. Many of these lawyers and architects get lucky. Sure, they work hard, but luck is a huge factor. It depends on whether somebody decides to look you up as an architect or lawyer or they choose the guy next to you in the Yellow Pages.

[la_senorita_azul]

mister_clockwork wrote: (At least with watchmaking,) Everyone knows someone who has a watch or clock that needs to be fixed, and especially with the economy the way it is, they're much more likely to get an item repaired rather than buy a new one. There's also wealthy people who have private collections, and people who are doing well in this economy who are still buying nice things. A chiropractor I know recently bought an $8,000 Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso wrist watch, so there's definitely people with money. The same can go for the other artisan jobs as well. Some things need restored or repaired, and some people can afford to just buy nice things. You just have to bear in mind that the economy is about as bad as it should get, so profits in these areas should rise with the economy, especially with people wanting more and more handmade/quality stuff. As least in the watchmaking world, people are starting to get tired of the electronic junk and are looking for quality mechanical watches. Mechanical watches only make up about 10-20% of the watches sold today, but gives over 50% of the net revenue. There's something to be said for that. And as far as the money that can be made, my teacher has made 4 watches per customer request, each selling for about $150,000 (and this was 10+ years ago; imagine how much they'd sell for now). It's an obscure profession right now, and the general public isn't informed on what goes on in the horological world.

I honestly don't know a single person who has a custom/hand-made watch. Sure, repairs are always made, but I don't think that the demand is sufficient. Most people that I know will go into Eckerd or Macy's and buy a cheapish watch instead of getting it replaced anyway. There are watch repair places by me, usually placed in jewelers, but most people just buy new watches. Obviously, this is just my town, and may (or may not) very much differ if you go a few miles north of me.

[mister_clockwork]

la_senorita_azul wrote: I honestly don't know a single person who has a custom/hand-made watch. Sure, repairs are always made, but I don't think that the demand is sufficient. Most people that I know will go into Eckerd or Macy's and buy a cheapish watch instead of getting it replaced anyway. There are watch repair places by me, usually placed in jewelers, but most people just buy new watches. Obviously, this is just my town, and may (or may not) very much differ if you go a few miles north of me.

That's because there's less than 10 people in the US who can actually make a watch from scratch. There's probably no more than 50 in the entire world who can. Sadly, most "watchmakers" only know how to flip batteries. Some can do basic maintenance and repair, a few can do advanced repair, a handful can do lathework (making parts when needed), and it's rare to find any who can do restoration work. Those latter areas are where the better money is. Battery flippers are a dime a dozen, but finding someone who can restore a 300 year old watch to like-new condition is almost impossible. My teacher, for instance, was sought after by the Arab guy who owns this $25 million dollar watch:


Needless to say, repair on it had no price limit. He was also called upon by the US Navy to do a conservation on the watch recovered from the USS Hunley submarine, which sunk during the Civil War.

I digress. My point is, he's on of the best in the US, and one of the top in the world. Yet, he's not much further ahead of a good watchmaker in older days. An average one today wouldn't be able to get a job as a watchmaker 100 years ago. A lot of the trade skills we've had are disappearing. Most of them are what made this a prosperous country.

Even your area may have more going on than you realize. There are a lot of obscure jobs out there, many of which are unbeknown to the public.