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Old 9th March 2013   #101
what_yo_name_is
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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younginstasy wrote: View Post

You're right, some never will get it. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to work towards the change. It doesn't mean we can't try to not be so okay with rape.
I'm not saying that we can't try. But this whole thread, we've been arguing over the wrong things. The real question is how do we change things? Everyone knows how to not rape someone.
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Old 9th March 2013   #102
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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lefty013 wrote: View Post

I can't speak for every situation, but in mine personally reporting him would mean losing any connection to the people I went to high school who were mutual friends. Most of my friends from then would look down on me for it regardless of what had happened because I, whether I wanted to or not, had engaged in sex. My parents would know that I had lied to them about where I was that night.

But okay, I could deal with that.

So let's say that I went to the police. The first thing I had done was take a shower, so whoops, no physical evidence. Now I run the risk of being charged with falsely reporting a crime. But let's say they believe me. Now there's a public investigation and everyone in my college is going to know me as that girl who got raped. A friend of my rapist lives (by coincidence) on the top floor of our duplex. Guess who's giving my address to everyone? So now people who know him, or just don't believe me, or blame me somehow can come to my home and tell me so. And don't think for a second that they wouldn't-- it might not be people knocking on my door and screaming in my face, but I can guarantee my car would be keyed, hell, maybe even something spray painted on th door.

But okay, I could live with that, right?

Now let's say that the police decide that there's no case. Well, we're back to me being charged with falsely reporting and at this point it's much more likely that charges would actually be pressed and pursued. But let's say that they do decide to take it to court. I have a 2% chance of a guilty conviction, but there's no physical evidence and he told everyone in the house that we "just made out" so there are no witnesses either. It's a he-said-she-said type of situation and since there's not enough evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt that he did it, he'll be getting off.

So now that's in my record forever. And it's likely that he'll counter sue. So now I'm financially ruined (oh did I mention I can't afford to hire a lawyer for all of this in the first place?), labelled as someone who falsely accused someone of rape, my parents no longer trust me, I've burned all of the bridges with my old high school and church, I'm probably no longer attending college because of all of this, and I can guarantee my anxiety has flared up and with all of this we're probably looking at panic attacks everyday, weight at an all time low.

Can I live with that? Personally, no.
You have an excellent point there.. But that doesn't mean it would go exactly that way.. It would require you to tell the truth about a lie you told to your parents, but I'm sure they would support you on whatever choice you decided to make. Most women after that situation has happened, do report to taking showers after, that wouldn't be an uncommon defense at all.. The prosecution could also possibly make him break while interrogating him.. Some actually do admit to what they done and to how many women before the last that actually got him convicted. I understand what that type of accusation can do to your life as a whole.. And sometimes it can be better for some people to just not talk about it. But every person convicted is perhaps 1 - 20 more people saved. I would personally like to see big changes in the justice system regarding these types of cases. Maybe even lie detector tests.. But that doesn't seem like a possibility at this point yet. Hopefully one day, because then, they can't lie.
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Old 9th March 2013   #103
the_dark_king
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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younginstasy wrote: View Post

You're right, some never will get it. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to work towards the change. It doesn't mean we can't try to not be so okay with rape.
you are asking people to change people they don't even know. You are putting the actions of a few as all of societies fault, and you are using the actions of few to explain a away 80% of unreported rapes. women who never experienced rape listen to this excuse that it is society and when it unfortunately happens to them they say oh society is not going to like me if I fight for my self then adds to the unreported. society is not. If you are asking for society to fix all the people that say ignorant things to people they don't know and happen to be a rape victim. Changing the few people that taut rape victims is not why rape is a low reported , low trial , and low conviction. It is because Rape is 1. A difficult crime to solve and 2. It is not reported.
Old 10th March 2013   #104
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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the_dark_king wrote: View Post

well how could he counter sue if you didn't report your rape. Unless you are telling everyone that he raped you but have not reported your rape, that is slander, but you said you didn't report the rape yet he sued you for slander and court cost, unless it was for the court cost for the slander. But the fact is if you didn't report your rape and if you are telling every one that he has raped you that is probably why you would get shuned by friends if you are just saying you got raped to everyone, but you won't go to the police makes it seem like you are lying.
Dude are serious right now?

Him counter sueing was a hypothetical to my hypothetically reporting it. Obviously I did not report it so he's got no reason to sue me, but, when I laid out what could've happened that was one possibility.

I've told a grand total of three people irl about what happened, so I'm scarcely telling everyone. The word "if" in my first post should've been a dead giveaway.
Old 10th March 2013   #105
ecowarrior1991
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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lefty013 wrote: View Post

I can't speak for every situation, but in mine personally reporting him would mean losing any connection to the people I went to high school who were mutual friends. Most of my friends from then would look down on me for it regardless of what had happened because I, whether I wanted to or not, had engaged in sex. My parents would know that I had lied to them about where I was that night.

But okay, I could deal with that.

So let's say that I went to the police. The first thing I had done was take a shower, so whoops, no physical evidence. Now I run the risk of being charged with falsely reporting a crime. But let's say they believe me. Now there's a public investigation and everyone in my college is going to know me as that girl who got raped. A friend of my rapist lives (by coincidence) on the top floor of our duplex. Guess who's giving my address to everyone? So now people who know him, or just don't believe me, or blame me somehow can come to my home and tell me so. And don't think for a second that they wouldn't-- it might not be people knocking on my door and screaming in my face, but I can guarantee my car would be keyed, hell, maybe even something spray painted on th door.

But okay, I could live with that, right?

Now let's say that the police decide that there's no case. Well, we're back to me being charged with falsely reporting and at this point it's much more likely that charges would actually be pressed and pursued. But let's say that they do decide to take it to court. I have a 2% chance of a guilty conviction, but there's no physical evidence and he told everyone in the house that we "just made out" so there are no witnesses either. It's a he-said-she-said type of situation and since there's not enough evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt that he did it, he'll be getting off.

So now that's in my record forever. And it's likely that he'll counter sue. So now I'm financially ruined (oh did I mention I can't afford to hire a lawyer for all of this in the first place?), labelled as someone who falsely accused someone of rape, my parents no longer trust me, I've burned all of the bridges with my old high school and church, I'm probably no longer attending college because of all of this, and I can guarantee my anxiety has flared up and with all of this we're probably looking at panic attacks everyday, weight at an all time low.

Can I live with that? Personally, no.

Pretty much the same story as me. Except I reported. It never went to court. He got away with it. Fled the country.

I suffer mild P.T.S.D, severe depression and Hypervigilance.
And want to know the only thing I regret?
Reporting it.
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Old 10th March 2013   #106
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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ecowarrior1991 wrote: View Post

Pretty much the same story as me. Except I reported. It never went to court. He got away with it. Fled the country.

I suffer mild P.T.S.D, severe depression and Hypervigilance.
And want to know the only thing I regret?
Reporting it.
people cant say you were lying though , I am guessing it didn't go no where because of lack of evidence. But him get off for lack of evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen and he is always going to have the arrest on his record if he did get arrested. If you didn't report people would have more of a reason to question your story.

---------- Post added 10th March 2013 at 02:27 PM ----------

Quote:
lefty013 wrote: View Post

Dude are serious right now?

Him counter sueing was a hypothetical to my hypothetically reporting it. Obviously I did not report it so he's got no reason to sue me, but, when I laid out what could've happened that was one possibility.

I've told a grand total of three people irl about what happened, so I'm scarcely telling everyone. The word "if" in my first post should've been a dead giveaway.
you didn't say if in your first post and you said if I chose to ruin my life in the second post but it was the last sentence. Don't get mad at me because your sentences are not clear. It was obvious that you didn't report even if it is hypothetical, you can't sue for slander if you have a court case. He can sue for court cost, but not slander. Again he would have to prove that you are lying. Lack of evidence =/= lying.

Anyways , if you didn't reported and you are telling people then he can sue. If you are telling people that he raped you, but you didn't reported so their is nothing to back up your statement then that is slander. If what you are saying gets to certain people then he could lose his job and other things and he would have grounds to sue you for slander.
Old 10th March 2013   #107
younginstasy
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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what_yo_name_is wrote: View Post

I'm not saying that we can't try. But this whole thread, we've been arguing over the wrong things. The real question is how do we change things? Everyone knows how to not rape someone.
I think the whole idea of change and teaching people not to rape, is just that. We need to not normalize rape. By the media and the way they portray women that is teaching people that rape is okay. I have recently seen an audi commercial, where a boy kisses a girl without her consent, and he gets a black eye by her boyfriend, and she smiles. Do you know the type of message that sends? Have you looked at fashion ads? They almost always sexulizing women. If not portraying violence against them. Women are always seen as subordinate in commercials, ads, ect. Everything that a man is shown doing to them, they either accept or like. That is rape culture. That is not teaching "don't rape." The whole thinking behind "teach not to rape," is change to the culture. Not just simply saying "rape is wrong don't do it."

If everyone knew how not to rape, the average joe wouldn't rape someone (hell, 22% of rapists report being married, so you'd think they'd "know how not to rape.")

Quote:
According to a new study of college students, men will admit to rape as long as you don't call it that — and the same few men are offending multiple times without getting caught.
As the Sexist's Amanda Hess points out, you'd think no guy would admit to any of these acts. But 120 respondents, or 6% of the sample (which, by the way, was ethnically diverse, and included older students, up to the age of 71), answered yes to at least one of the questions. 76 of those men had committed more than one rape or attempted rape — these recidivists averaged 5.8 offenses. That is, writes Millar, "just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes."
The study had two important implications. One is that rapists aren't really all that secretive about their activities — as long as you don't come right out and call it "rape." The other is that one common assumption about date rape or "gray rape" — that it's usually the result of miscommunication and happens when good guys get the wrong idea — appears to be wrong. As Hess says, we hear a lot about "the acquaintance who 'misreads' the situation and 'goes too far'" and "the longtime friend who genuinely thought you had consented, and is shocked when you tell him that, no, it was rape." When we conceive of acquaintance-rapists this way, solutions tend to be woman-focused — women need to say 'no' louder, to avoid sending mixed signals, or, most upsettingly, to accept that the vagaries of sex are such that occasionally someone will just "accidentally" rape them. This thinking also trivializes date-rape and rape involving alcohol, leading to scenes like the one in Observe and Report (pictured above) in which sex with an unconscious woman is played for laughs. But Lisak and Miller's research shows that many acquaintance-rapists aren't just nice guys who screwed up once — they have a history of repeated assault. Rape isn't just an unfortunate feature of everyday male-female relations — it's a crime committed disproportionately by a few. And yet rather than being ostracized, these few are frequently protected by those who say, in Hess's words, "He's my friend, so he can't be a rapist." Hess continues, "We need to reverse that equation-'He's a rapist, so he can't be my friend.'"
Rapists who don't think they're rapists
As long as you don't call it rape
http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com...the-predators/
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Old 10th March 2013   #108
what_yo_name_is
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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younginstasy wrote: View Post

I think the whole idea of change and teaching people not to rape, is just that. We need to not normalize rape. By the media and the way they portray women that is teaching people that rape is okay. I have recently seen an audi commercial, where a boy kisses a girl without her consent, and he gets a black eye by her boyfriend, and she smiles. Do you know the type of message that sends? Have you looked at fashion ads? They almost always sexulizing women. If not portraying violence against them. Women are always seen as subordinate in commercials, ads, ect. Everything that a man is shown doing to them, they either accept or like. That is rape culture. That is not teaching "don't rape." The whole thinking behind "teach not to rape," is change to the culture. Not just simply saying "rape is wrong don't do it."

If everyone knew how not to rape, the average joe wouldn't rape someone (hell, 22% of rapists report being married, so you'd think they'd "know how not to rape.")



Rapists who don't think they're rapists
As long as you don't call it rape
http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com...the-predators/
That makes absolutely no since to me. Only because no one on their right mind doesn't know how to not rape someone. When your drunk/high maybe not. You don't have control over your actions most of the time. Or someone who isn't sane. So teaching someone how not to rape isn't helping fix the problem. It's only a method. A way, that won't work.
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Old 10th March 2013   #109
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Default Re: How not to rape.

Quote:
younginstasy wrote: View Post

I think the whole idea of change and teaching people not to rape, is just that. We need to not normalize rape. By the media and the way they portray women that is teaching people that rape is okay. I have recently seen an audi commercial, where a boy kisses a girl without her consent, and he gets a black eye by her boyfriend, and she smiles. Do you know the type of message that sends? Have you looked at fashion ads? They almost always sexulizing women. If not portraying violence against them. Women are always seen as subordinate in commercials, ads, ect. Everything that a man is shown doing to them, they either accept or like. That is rape culture. That is not teaching "don't rape." The whole thinking behind "teach not to rape," is change to the culture. Not just simply saying "rape is wrong don't do it."

If everyone knew how not to rape, the average joe wouldn't rape someone (hell, 22% of rapists report being married, so you'd think they'd "know how not to rape.")



Rapists who don't think they're rapists
As long as you don't call it rape
http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com...the-predators/
1. That audi commercial is not rape, at best it could be sexual assault. But the fact is the girl consented because she leaned into the kiss. If she would of pushed him away then that would of been assault.
2. Give an example of these fashion ads where women are getting violently abused in them because I doubt any of them exist.
3. First of all rape culture is not media showing ads that at best are a little far fetched, but advocating rape , now you are getting into consperiesy theory land. You act as if their aren't commercials where men are spontaneously kissed does that advocate rape? Are commercials where men are submissive advocating rape? How come when a commercial message is men can do what they want , it is preceived as rape; but when it is women it is perceived as empowerment .
4. So because 6% of guys out of roughly 200 say they are not rapist but they do rape constitutes as a rape culture. You can't take a miniscule amount of the population and say that all of society has a rape culture. Plus the article is a little misleading with its wording. First they say they will admit to rape as long as you don't call it rape. But at the end it says these guys don't see themselves as rapist. Plus the survey say repeatedly have you ever had ... With threat or force without defining what force or threat is. Some people thing force or threat is by pressuring some one, which it isn't since you can ask a question a million times, but you always have the right to say no. And threat could be consider something as trivial as I will tell people you are a prude. So these numbers can very well be inflated.
5. How does the amount of rapes happening effect the amount of women getting justice. Even if 2million rapes happen you would still have no justice because you would still have 80% unreported. Rapist is already a negative word, people already know what rape is even if they don't want to call it that. Even if you call rapist rapist nothing is going to be done unless women report their rapes. You can social change all you want there is still going to be that one person that rapes. But, if cops only have 20% reported they can do anything about the other 80% and the 20% is affected by the eighty percent because if their are guys forcing women to have sex repeatedly then basically only 2 of 100 of his victims are reporting that he raped him. Imagine if just 8 other pointed out that he is their rapist he would be in prison more easily if it is just 2.
Old 10th March 2013   #110
younginstasy
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Default Re: How not to rape.

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what_yo_name_is wrote: View Post

That makes absolutely no since to me. Only because no one on their right mind doesn't know how to not rape someone. When your drunk/high maybe not. You don't have control over your actions most of the time. Or someone who isn't sane. So teaching someone how not to rape isn't helping fix the problem. It's only a method. A way, that won't work.
How does that not make sense?
People who commit crimes like this, rationalize them. Many of rapists are not mentally ill. They are just people who justify their crimes, or don't even think what they did was a crime because along the lines of thoughts like, "well she was asking for it," "I took her out, she should give me something," "she was looking to hook up at that party," "she really wanted it," ect. The bottom line is, whether it makes sense to you or not is pretty irrelevant, it happens. People who know rape is wrong, do it anyway because they do not recognize what they are doing as rape.
You're not looking past your nose. Like I said:
Quote:
The whole thinking behind "teach not to rape," is change to the culture. Not just simply saying "rape is wrong don't do it."
It is not just saying "don't do it" and leaving it at that, it means teaching our society that its wrong, it means changing our society and the way that we view it. It means standing up against rape culture.
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